Metal Mayhem ROC

David Jackson 0:00

Today's episode is a little longer. John from the metal mayhem show had us listen to two different episodes. And at the end, we always ask, Hey, do you have any questions and at that point, it turns into a consulting call. And that's what you're gonna get to hear because John had plenty of really good questions. Here's the show.

Unknown Speaker 0:19

Today on the podcast review show, we're checking out metal mayhem, our OC. Welcome to the podcast Review Show, hosted by radio veteran Eric K. Johnson, from podcast talent coach.com and holophane podcaster Dave Jackson, from the school of podcasting.

Wayne Henderson 0:41

Dave and Eric help you identify those things you are doing right? So you can do more of those and lose those things that don't deliver value to your audience. Join in on the conversation at podcast review. show.com All right. Welcome to the podcast Review Show. I'm Dave Jackson from the School of podcasting.com this is where we bring somebody on. We look at their show we look at their website we look at their goals and find out what they're doing right so they can do more of that and then we find maybe a thing or two that might need just a little bit of polish and joining me to help me do that is the one and only Eric Kay Johnson you know invest as podcast town coach.com Eric, how's it going, buddy?

Erik K. Johnson 1:24

Dave, things are great. Good to be back in the seat again review and another great show tonight. Excited to be here tonight. We are joined by John the vernal Matic Berto from metal mayhem. Our OC. Love that love the name love the name of the podcast. John. John, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. Eric. Thank you, Dave. Thank you for the invite to discuss tonight. Absolutely. Tell us a little bit about where the show originated and and how you come about metal mayhem Roc.

Jon "THE VERNOMATIC" Vernon 1:57

I'll give you the quick version in the mid 80s. I was studying radio and TV broadcasting in high school and the vocational program and 11th and 12th grade year, me and a classmate we essentially got the keys to the public access radio station and was able to program a show that was live on Friday nights, eight until 12. And it was called metal mayhem. So the seed to metal mayhem was born back then. We took that show to the point where in the spring of 1986, we actually interviewed Metallica on their Master of Puppets tour in Rochester, New York. So that was the springboard for my career, if you will, in media, my late father that advertising for 35 years up here in Rochester. So it was in the family DNA. They have mastic Yeah, yeah. So there's a like, like a real life Wayne's World like you guys do sit there just talking talking metal loving it and all sudden Metallica drops it? Hey,

David Jackson 3:09

boys, the thing I'm dying to know is who is the target audience is it to to reconnect? Guys like me from the 80s that grew up on priest and Van Halen and Iron Maiden and all that, or is it trying to recruit the new class of of metal fans as well?

Jon "THE VERNOMATIC" Vernon 3:30

The answer is yes. We're a we're a bridge. We're trying to educate the old school guys on what's going on now and educate the younger generation on the history of metal. And between the two. It's enhances the community. I'll give you a quick example. This week alone. Monday, we did an interview with a female guitarist around 30. Now if you're familiar with who she is, yes, she's played with Alice Cooper and Michael Jackson, Carrie Underwood. So Monday we interviewed her. But on Tuesday, we came back and interviewed 80s Thrash band destructor from your part of town up in Cleveland. That's a perfect illustration of what the brand is trying to do. And finally, the metal may have our OC, the ROC part, it's dual meaning it's rock for Rochester, New York, and it's rock for rock at all mayhem rock. I'm glad you answered that, because that was when I first questions is like what tech is the ROC thing about? I thought maybe it was like there was a copyright infringement and you know, some other company had metal mayhem and I had to throw something on to make it different or something like that. So well, that answers that. So we're gonna listen to the show, give me a little bit of feedback, find the things you're doing really well so you can do more of that and some of the things that might need a little brush up and

Erik K. Johnson 5:00

just kind of give you some feedback as we go along, by all means, John, as we're rolling through it, if you have questions, jump in and ask them as we roll along. We want it to be a conversation and really kind of just help you polish this thing up a little bit.

Jon "THE VERNOMATIC" Vernon 5:13

Sounds good. One question. Do you guys lead into this? What's your history of hard rock and metal? Dave? You've already Yeah, I shared a little bit.

David Jackson 5:17

I was the baby of the family. So I grew up on the Beatles, but I was the only kid in first grade who knew who Jimi Hendrix was when he died. And then from there I graduated the Bachman Turner overdrive was the first band I found and no fragile and I was like oh my god, these guys are awesome. Aragon by you.

Erik K. Johnson 5:40

I have seven brothers and sisters. Most of them are older than I am my oldest brother's 20 years older than me. So growing up I listened to all of their albums. You know everything from BTO and KC and the Sunshine ban to Ted Nugent and

men at work in all of it I mean, it was so my my musical tastes growing up or wide and quite varied. One of my brothers was big into Nugent, one of my brothers was was big into the clash and some of that some of that stuff on vinyl, so I got to hear it all. Alright, well, we're gonna listen to metal mayhem with a completely different Yes. And here we go.

Unknown Speaker 6:28

Automatic productions are you ready? Live from the metal mayhem studios in Rochester, New York. We are who we are. And heard around the world by metal heads just like you This is metal mayhem Roc heavy metal music your weekly dose of metal music interviews, album reviews, news and more want to be part of the show? Send us a message through our website metal may have roc.com or hit us up on Facebook and Twitter. Search metal may have Roc Good, nice and heavy. And now welcome tonight's host John The Verna ematic Furneaux.

Jon "THE VERNOMATIC" Vernon 7:07

Good evening, everybody. As always, Thursday nights, new content drops. Here we find ourselves on the other side of Fourth of July. And we hope everyone's enjoying their summer of 2022. On tonight's show, we're having a little bit of a local flavor. We're up here in Rochester, New York, and we invited mid 20s metalhead Aaron Thomas on to the show. Now, Aaron, he has a passion for 80s metal. He took it so far that he created his very own record label Dark Age records. Now the mission of Dark Age records is Aaron seeks out 80s bands that only went as far as to release demos, for various reasons. Maybe they're young or maybe they broke up. He gets the best quality master tapes of these demos. And he remasters it, he puts together artwork and he releases it on his labeled Dark Age records. It's a really fun story. So we're gonna have Aaron here in just a minute. I want to invite you to visit the brand new website

Unknown Speaker 8:12

of the show. And Eric, I'll let you go first.

Erik K. Johnson 8:17

Love the production value of the open your voice guy. I mean, that sounds legit. Love the music, love the nice, concise. Open tells us exactly what shows all about makes me say yep, I'm in the right spot. loved all of that. If I had to change anything about the open, it would have been the search for us on whatever you said I don't want to go search don't make it hard for me. I would just create a redirect metal mayhem roc.com/connect. And take that to a page on your website that lists an opportunity for them to email you. It's a link to your Facebook Messenger. It's a link to everything right there. So you're just given one address to connect with you. That'd be the only thing I change the intro that you know, just kicked me in the face right out of the box, which I loved it. Not too long. No, I didn't think so at all. I mean, it kept moving forward. Yeah, you know it to me if I wasn't looking at my watch going, Man, how long is this open? It kept moving forward and didn't didn't repeat itself and stay on the same thing too long. So it kept taking a step forward to the next thing. Oh, yeah, that and oh, yeah, that and then y'all next thing you know you're in. So I didn't feel it was too long at all. Yeah, I'm with Eric. It was obviously within the first three seconds. You know, okay, this is a metal show. And I'm in the right place. And like Eric said, it just kept here's this, here's our website, do this and that you do do one thing you do. You do mention your website a lot. And a lot of times we have to remind people, you know, I think you'd have just listened to two different episodes. And there was only one time when you set out at the website that you didn't say metal mayhem roc.com

David Jackson: 10:00

You're always thrown in there. And a lot of times people because they know their website won't say it, or they feel salesy and things like that, you know, and then once the intro was over, you started explaining exactly what's on the episode. So the you had the intro of the podcast, and then you slid right into Okay, and here's what we're going to talk about. And so there wasn't any, for lack of a better phrase cat talk, you know, hey, let's talk about what Mr. Whiskers did this week. And knew like, no, here's what we're gonna do. And you went right into it. Are you? Excuse me? Are you saying that? I'm saying metal mayhem? llc.com too much? No, I don't think you can do that too much. I really don't. Yeah, that's that was my goal. It's, yeah. In fact, that was in my notes, because somewhere in there, in like the first three minutes I put, I definitely remember your website now. And it wasn't, for me at least it wasn't annoying, when I like it, that it's the call to action throughout the entire episode as if you want to go over to metal mayhem roc.com. Like, every time you had a call to action, it was the same thing it was go to the website, which I love the consistency there, because people are going to remember that. And with that intro, I love the fact that you set up your guest, and you tell us why we need to stick around for the episode, you tell us what's coming. And then you say, before we get to him, here's a little housekeeping. So I'm like, Alright, cool. Let's get through the housekeeping so we can get to what You teased me with, which is great, rather than the reverse, where you do the housekeeping. And then you then you say oh, by the way, here's here's the good part. Yeah. So yeah, I thought the structure of the open was solid. The only thing that I kind of worried about as I got into the episode is you said, Here's a young guy that likes metal so much, that he started his own record company. He hunts down these guys, and has it Remastered. I think he even said it's a fun story.

And so tell me the part that you didn't cover in the episode that I just told you.

Jon "THE VERNOMATIC" Vernon: 12:06

I didn't fall. Yeah, that's kind of the point.

David Jackson: 12:10

You gave me the whole story. You'd instead of saying I found this young kid that loves metal, so much. And I pretty much said 3020 seconds. But the whole episode is Yeah, right. Yeah, tease us. You're not gonna believe what he discovered with the thing in that or whatever. Yeah, you know, you know, it'll, you'll be surprised how he gets through the legal issues or what, you know, tease me like, tease what's coming up. So I gotta, I gotta, I gotta close that loop. I gotta find the answer to that tease. Okay, okay. But you basically said the kids in his mid 20s. And he finds these demos, and he creates his own record label. And a story. Like, now let's make that story. 20 minutes long. Here we go. Okay.

Unknown Speaker: 12:56

And then I was dying to hear Eric's opinion on there. Because you then went from you did a great job of Here's what's coming up. We're going to talk to this young kid. And then you went into what's coming up. So coming up in the next couple of weeks, we have our auntie, that female metal guitarist, she has a brand new CD DVD coming out this week called Live from Hollywood. She's here to tell us about that 80s Thrash kings a destructor. From Cleveland. They're on the show to take a walk down heavy metal memory lane. And Frank bello of anthrax and JD from Black Label society will be joining us in a few weeks to discuss that twin Bill US tour anthrax black label that's going across America. So like I said at the beginning of the show, his goal is to bring those quality 80s Heavy Metal demos into the 21st century.

David Jackson: 13:52

So it wasn't super long. It was like, you know, 35 seconds, something like that. So it's not super long. And I wasn't sure Eric, because it's but it's something and it's another thing before the interview. I typically do. Here's what's coming in the future at the end.

Unknown Speaker: 14:11

And I was like, this isn't Eric question.

Erik K. Johnson: 14:15

I have no issue with it being up front. Matter of fact, I would leave it up front. Because if we get Partway into this interview, and I go, This guy sucks by and I'm out. I don't make it to the end. So I don't hear the tease. That's what I would have changed is how you executed it, John. There's a difference between promoting it and teasing it. You promoted it. We're going to talk to Dave, we're going to talk to John and we're going to talk to Bob and I go, Okay, who cares, right? I don't know if you've already have those podcasts or interviews recorded or if you're going to record them coming up. I'll give you two ways to do it. If you already have them recorded, find something in there. That's a whole

Unknown Speaker: 15:00

Crap mint moment. And you're going to we're going to talk to super female guitarist. And you're not going to believe how she compares Carrie Underwood, to whoever else she played with, I can't remember, you know, or she's going to share a backstage story of something that happened when she was performing on tour with Alice Cooper or whatever, right? Because you know what, you know the story? Yeah. If you haven't interviewed her yet, I can't wait to ask her about how she, how she gets in Carrie Underwood mode after she comes off stage from Alice Cooper. You know, you're like, yeah, how does she do that? I gotta, I gotta figure out what that answer is. Or, you know, I read a, I read a point in time where she got robbed at, at a Denny's after a gig one night, I need to find out if that's really true. And we're going to ask her about that when she comes on the show. You know, now it's a tease, and I have to close the loop. So I need to come to get the rest of the story. Rather than saying what I said. Yeah, she's got a new album coming out, and we're going to talk to her about it. I'm like,

Unknown Speaker: 16:11

stop there. And then we got Frank and JD. Yeah. So yeah. And we're going to talk to him about the double tour. Or but what you could have said is, they got a double tour coming up, and I'm gonna, I we need to figure out how that came about. Because how do you balance two headliners on the same tour? How do they decide who gets to go first? Or are they flipping a coin? Like, what is the thing? What's the hook? That's going to make me show up for each of those episodes? Yeah, I get it. shorten it a little bit and a little more meat on to the bone and get out. Yeah, I don't even know that it needs to necessarily be shorter. If you if you give me something that wets my tastebuds. And I go, Yeah, I need to hear that one. And then you hit me with another one. I go, Oh, crap, I need to hear that one too. And then you hit me with a third one. You're like, Okay, I'm subscribed and you got me. Where's the subscribe button? Let me hit it. I love I love the fact that it's up front, because you go. This is a great episode here. But look at all this other good stuff coming back. You know, make sure you hit the subscribe button, so you don't miss a minute of it. Yeah. And what's great about that within the first three minutes, you mentioned, what you did in the last episode, I think was in there too, as well. And then you mentioned what's coming in the future. And you've announced what's on this episode. So within the span of five minutes, I kind of know what this show is about. I got a really good sample of what the show is about. So if I'm not a subscriber, I'm like, this is really right up my alley. This is you know, he interviewed Don doc and holy cow I'm in. So yeah, right. And so you'd mentioned the hook. Eric, this was the hook of this episode. Aaron, you're young. How old? Are you? 26. Okay, so he's 26 It's really cool that someone your age has taken an interest in some of this older stuff. And so really, that was I, to me, I think that was the hook. Like, holy cow. We found this young man. And he started a record label. Does that kind of what you got out of this, Eric? Yeah, Mike. My whole thing was how does a kid that was born in 1998. Fall in love with 80s metal like and then start a record label? How does that happen? Like, you know, that's, that's where I would have gone with that is, you know, you How old are you? 26 Holy crap. You weren't even thought of like your parents probably weren't even together. When these bands were big. How do you not only fall in love with metal, but now you're, you've started a record label of bands that didn't even get a record deal. You can relate to this, Eric and Dave, probably yourself too. There is such a huge backstory. Erin's father and he mentioned it in the interview was a DJ on this station back in the day. It was called metallic overdrive and W GMC. And what metallic overdrive was, it was on Friday and Saturday nights from like 11 o'clock at night to like five in the morning. It was a promotional tool for the Lakeshore record Exchange, which was the big metal store.

Unknown Speaker: 19:15

Right down near the lake in Rochester, all the metal bands played at the Penny Arcade. Lake Shore promoted those shows. So it was a big circle and his father was warhead. So that's how Aaron who's 26 Now that's how he that was the DNA placement in him. So that's why in the interview, I said to him, I'm like, so what was it you're driving around and pops was jam and nasty salmon, or like, being fat it and and that's that's how he's doing this. That's why it's in it's in his DNA. Then what I want to challenge you to do John is when you know answers to great questions, when you know the answer to the question is

Unknown Speaker: 20:00

Gotta be solid. That's the question to ask him, like, just toss him the softball and let him crush it. Because, you know, like, for you saying, How does this happen? Like, you know how it happened because you knew his dad was in radio, you knew he was already in that circle, you knew it's in his blood growing up. Right? So tossing that softball and let him tell the story that you just told and let that passion come out. What would have been the softball, how would it sounded that I would have just said, you weren't born until you until 96? How do you fall in love with 80s? Metal? And not only that, how does how does a label come out of it? Let him roll with my dad was the thing and the deal and Rochester and the whole, you know, and he just rolls it to you? Because you turn it into a yes, no question. You said, so what were you doing, riding around in the car with pops, blast and metal? And that's a yes, no question. And he was kind of like, yeah, so he kind of bypassed because he was already in the car listening to the music. He didn't even mention, like he I think he mentioned his dad, but I don't remember him mentioning the background that you just gave us. And it was a sidebar, it's a slippery slope. Because I've been trying to been chronically in Rochester metal for three years. And the big fish, I want to get the warhead on here. I want to do an exclusive with them. And because he was the kingpin, he was legendary. We're friends on Facebook.

Unknown Speaker: 21:27

He just he puts that's in the past. And so when we was doing this with Aaron, I didn't have enough balls to

Unknown Speaker: 21:37

get there to say, Hey, come on your dad's our warhead.

Unknown Speaker: 21:42

about it. And that's what I get what you're saying, ask that question. Yeah, let him tell the story. lead him to the fountain and then let him drink from it and let him roll it. And then you just keep asking him.

Unknown Speaker: 21:55

Questions that peel back that onion and let him start telling you the story of you know, how did you Dad play into this whole scene? And you're right, Dave, I You got to stay away from yes, no questions. Yes. No questions are a dead end, depending on the guest. You know what I mean? If you can, it's not something I want to start with. But if they can go yes. And then tell the story of Yes. But I have a guest that doesn't shut up, then you want to start throwing some Yes.

Unknown Speaker: 22:24

Their way? Yeah, one of the reasons I asked who is this for is this, this fourth clip is fairly deep in the woods, we kind of jump into the middle of this, but just he's talking about the process of what he does. So so there is a a labor portion of this. So you you get the tapes. And then you send it out what was the outlet King tat content? Yeah, te t. So they they remastered, if you will, are the bands reaching out to you now Now that things have gotten going or I feel like now things are starting to move faster, I still have to contact all these people because most, most people aren't really aware of what I do, you know, because they're living their own lives. And they've kind of set behind their their band life 30 years ago for a lot of these people. But now that I have more releases out, people can look and see what I have, and they're more willing to put it out. So, you know, we're getting in fairly detailed into kind of what's going on and things like that. And that's where I wasn't sure who this is for there. If Did you see anything in there when they because I mean, on one hand, for the metal fan? Like the one thing you do? That's really cool. Even though I didn't know a single person you mentioned is you mentioned, I think one or two people that are dead. And I was like I bet that wasn't covered anywhere else. It definitely sounds like a lot of the stuff was like super fan material. And so I don't think I liked it. I thought getting in the weeds was pretty cool, because fans super fans collect. And so they love to collect bootlegs, and they love to collect imports, and they love to collect stuff that other people don't have, like, Oh man, I have a I have a live recording of Ozzie 82 when he played, you know, the Ohio State Fair, scared old ladies, you know, and they're like, whoa, can I get a copy of that? You know, and so getting here like, Okay, well, how do you find these? You know, his he's releasing albums of demo tapes that never saw the light of day like how do you find those to begin with? Then how do you track down? Who owns the copyright and who the guys are and explain what you're doing? And then how do you find an audience for them and I'm loving it in the way he went through. It was just fascinating. And I was I was geeking out about the process because I love all

Unknown Speaker: 24:58

facets of music.

Unknown Speaker: 25:00

In, you know, I've got plenty of bootlegs laying around here. Everything from Prince's Black Album to to some some stuff that was recorded in the alternative scene, just how he was able to put it all together, I found really cool, even though I would never start a record label or have any desire to do that. I just I found that part of his story fascinating. And I know you have a live show. And we're going to talk a little bit more about that later. But is was this done as a live radio show? The reason I asked just to get to the punch here as you did this, we're talking with Aaron Thomas, the vision behind Dark Age records era. And this seems to be a Well, obviously, it's a passion. But what drives you to do this? And what's the long term goal? And the reason I say that I don't hear too many resets in a podcast, because it's not like I tuned into the middle of the podcast, I heard him introduced at the beginning. And I was like, well, maybe he's doing this for some sort of radio thing, because that's what you do on radio, because you're you're broadcasting to a hallway, and people are walking by you have to constantly reset who you're doing and things like that. So I just wasn't sure how this was recorded.

Unknown Speaker: 26:19

I have a hybrid. So you're right. It was it's produced as a radio show. But it's a podcast. So I did reset it. Okay. Well, I don't have any problem with the reset. In this case. If you're interviewing somebody I know. Like, let's say you were interviewing Yngwie Malmsteen. Or you're interviewing Alice Cooper or somebody. And I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, I get it. Like we're talking to Alice Cooper. Right. But this guy, I don't know from Adam. I don't even know if I should even care about this guy from the get go. Now he tells his story. And I'm fascinated. I'm like, that was awesome. Who is this guy? Like, this guy's great. And then you reset it? Oh, by the way, we're talking to, you know, so and so. And I Oh, okay. Cool. Awesome. Because at the beginning of the interview, I don't know whether or not I care. I don't know if I should remember his name. should I bother remembering his name? I don't even know anything about this guy. Now you've made me care. So I think the reset here is valid. Resetting radio, by the way in Dave describes it. People are coming and going, they're tuning in, in the middle of an interview, you gotta reset in radio, if you're interviewing somebody big time, if you're interviewing somebody that everybody knows in your genre. And they can tell by their voice like, oh, that's Ozzy. I can tell because I can't understand anything. He says. Like, there's no reason to reset that interview. Yeah, but yeah, this guy here, nobody knows him from Adam. So a reset after you've made everybody care, I think is valid. And whatever. It's not so much a reset, but a,

Unknown Speaker: 28:03

a promotional call to action. We're talking with Billy blah, blah, blah. Again, his new CDs coming out tomorrow, find it everywhere or whatever. But it's to really reiterate what we're promoting why they're on the show. Yeah, I think for me, I don't have a problem with that, especially if it did it just like you said, Hey, I'm, I'm talking with John from metal mayhem, you can find him metal mayhem roc.com. And we're talking and then you just go right back. So in the same way that you had me remember your website at the beginning, because you said it, you know, a couple of times within a short period, the guest is coming on for some reason. And to me, I've always kind of seen that as a nice, just hey, well, number one, in some cases that will help the person that constantly answers every question with will in my book, well in my book, and then they don't say anything, when you kind of promote them, I would think they might be less likely to to

Unknown Speaker: 29:04

kind of hold back from giving answers because you're helping them do what they want to do, which is sell their book or their music or whatever is going on. So what I might recommend in that situation, though, is not set it up as we're talking to Dave Jackson, because it's obvious. You're talking to Dave Jackson, what I would say if I was talking to Dave, and we're talking about his book, I would say Dave Jackson podcast profits comes out tomorrow if you're looking for it. Or I'll say, Don't forget de Jackson's book, podcast profits comes out tomorrow through all your favorite podcast channels. Dave, when you were writing the book, what was this net? And the other thing

Unknown Speaker: 29:44

that makes sense. So just kind of turn to the audience. Tell them you know, Dave Jackson's book comes out tomorrow, then turn back to Dave and say, what was the deal with the thing? Like how long did it take you to write this thing? Too long. I could have written this in a weekend.

Unknown Speaker: 30:00

And what this is dribble, What is this nonsense? The other reason I asked is do you do any post production on this?

Unknown Speaker: 30:10

You're telling me? Well, the the sound is amazing. Because the guest had a slight popping pee problem to where somehow you backed it off to where it wasn't quite so jarring. But you definitely do not delete arms.

Unknown Speaker: 30:29

And the reason I say that is, this is a clip. And again, I'm a metal person. And about here. And it might be a Rochester thing, because you guys are you talk? Well, here, let me play this.

Unknown Speaker: 30:44

Okay, yeah, um, let's see after that was Phantom, local Rochester band. They did

Unknown Speaker: 30:51

a demo in 85 and 186. And then after that, they broke up. And they reformed under, they didn't really have a name, I guess they just called it rock project. But that was an 89. They did a demo with that. And it was a slightly different members. It was the bassist and the guitar player from the 85 demo did that. So when somebody says

Unknown Speaker: 31:17

that's, like, literally highlight, delete to get rid of. And I always listened back because I mean, I do it a lot on this show. But the other thing here, if you think about what he's doing, he's talking about band members who left back in 1984 and 85, about bands who weren't good enough to get signed. And I was kinda like, again, super fans. But for me, at this point, this was a little too much detail about a band that I've never heard of. There are a lot of items for me again, now. I am the captain nitpicker of this of this crew. I don't I don't care about your

Unknown Speaker: 31:59

my opinion. I

Unknown Speaker: 32:01

don't waste your time. I listened I didn't notice the popping peas. And I didn't notice the arms. So don't worry.

Unknown Speaker: 32:12

I do this. If you notice, let's jump ahead a little bit. This This episode was an hour long, that was only like 22 minutes long. And this was in the can. And I run up professionally. I run a I own hotdog vending carts up here in Rochester. And I have three of them. And I do catering. And it's July. I am busy as hell. Okay, so so normally Dave, yes, I do. I this was edited. And

Unknown Speaker: 32:46

I'll admit it, this one was maybe a little more laxed. I'm like, okay, yeah, this was I did the interview, there was minimal editing, because it was pretty coherent. It was like I chopped, you know, I edited it. I could have gotten more. I try to I try to post every week. But realistically, this time of year. If I can't do every week, it has to be every other week. Well, and that Eric brings up a good point, I am listing through the ears of a podcaster. And I know that all you have to do is highlight delete. So in the same way that I am the guy at the back of the club with my arms crossed when I go watch a bunch of musicians and I go, Wait a minute, there's four guys on stage. I hear five part harmony. And my ex wife looks at me he goes, can you just not listen to the music just listen. You don't have to pick it apart. And like it's a musician thing. So I get the ending had a fun little gift though. We'll talk about this in just a second. But this is how you wrapped it up.

Unknown Speaker: 33:43

Metal for life. Thank you for listening to metal mayhem roc, check out our website at metal mayhem roc.com. For information on podcast archives, links to all our live radio shows and all sorts of info. Please like follow and share with everyone, even your non metal friends. And always remember to keep it heavy.

Unknown Speaker: 34:06

And

Unknown Speaker: 34:08

are you enjoying this? Great. There was a minute and 17 seconds of empty space at the end of this episode.

Unknown Speaker: 34:16

That was something I noticed I was like, is there like some sort of like easter egg to come in or whatever? And it was like nope, just just a minute and 17 seconds of empty space and I'll have to go back to the Adobe

Unknown Speaker: 34:31

for the record. We've all done.

Unknown Speaker: 34:35

Well,

Unknown Speaker: 34:37

I don't I don't know. Why don't people just bail out. I don't even know if people listen to yet. Well, I was on a bike. So I'm riding along and I've got my earbuds in and I'm like, where's the next episode? Like what's Why is my wife and I finally I'm riding my bike and I finally flipped my iPhone around and like we're still on the episode so then I got home and I pull up the file and first of all your audio again is great. I

Unknown Speaker: 35:00

It's everybody's got a nice constant level, it's warm and yet clear at the same time. And then just at the very end, there's like this big old blank spot at the end. So again, not the end of the world just that it was like. Alright, well, we've all done I remember once I had I muted a channel, so smack dab in the middle, there's just 15 seconds of nothing in the middle of my episode. So it happens. But let's go back to the ending itself. Again, great production. And the only thing is, again, the king of nitpicking, you did exactly what I was gonna say you didn't do and that is, like, share in something with everybody. And I don't know if it's because of the deep voice man with the cool music. I missed it the first few times I heard it, because I had my notes. Why aren't you asking people to tell a friend and you do so I don't know how I missed it. Because you do a great job. You promote the website again? Metal mayhem roc.com. And then you like, I think it's like, share in review maybe was something like that. So Eric, what were your thoughts on the besides the obvious silence but again, we're not gonna Yeah, I I love the end of it. It was you know, kicked me in the face again, left me just like I started nice little book ends on both ends. Nice, clean call to action. I wouldn't change a thing on the end of it. Yeah. I loved it. Yeah, what about the the outro music bed? Not the not the closing doo doo doo. But the 62nd lead in where Aaron and I are talking. I didn't have a problem with that either. Because that kind of that kind of told me Hey, we're starting to wrap it up. You know, it's kind of it kind of starts into the eye. Let's kind of tie up our loose ends, because here comes the close. I appreciated that because it kind of made me perk up. You know, it kind of made me Oh, okay, so here comes the important stuff that I need to pay attention because he's going to, he's going to give me my call to action here right at the end. So. And while I do that, because I try to have the last minute, the, you know, maybe maybe me and the guests will share a joke, or will that make it so serious? A little, you know, it's just like, hey, you know, thanks for stopping in. And you know, I learned a lot of stuff. I'm amazed that you're, you know, you're the best Mexican cook in the world. And you know what?

Unknown Speaker: 37:23

Let's stay in touch, you know, make it you get what I'm saying? And that's our our, the one thing I was gonna ask about this, why didn't you play any of the bands music? If I did, how much work do you play? That's the question. You play a minute. You play the whole song, you risk tune in someone out even though it's a a audio visual aid. It's, you know, you know that he's talking about something. It's like, you know what, Aaron, let's listen to a little bit of that phantom EP, from you know, Dungeons and Dragons. 1985. Here's five star lover, and maybe play the song. I didn't as again, I was just curious, because I know I was dying to hear some and when he got it remastered, I don't know if he would even be able to do this. But it'd be cool to hear like, this is what we pulled off the cassette. And here's what it sounded like remastered, you know, I don't think they're exactly like, remastered, like, yeah, they're going to studio and you know, with the original tapes, and yeah, I think it's just, I digitized it in my bedroom. Yes. Okay.

Unknown Speaker: 38:35

Yeah, you actually had us listen two to two episodes, which is not the norm, but you're happy to throw in a few more. Shekels and we appreciate that. So this was the beginning of Episode Two. And you had to do this one, because it was more of your, your crew, for lack of a better phrase, and you do these episodes on the history of metal. And in this case, we're listening to the history of 1984. And what I've done here, because we've already heard your intro, we know the deep voice guy in the rock. So I've, you'll hear your intro stop, and then it will fade in where you pick up again. So we don't have to listen to the same thing again. But this is the opening to the second episode. And I just add, get you guys up to speed what what this is

Unknown Speaker: 39:23

metal waltz in New Jersey, and in central New York. They're part of my team. And we started this last August, where we do a year and it's going in order and it's progressed and it's gotten a lot better. And the obstacles in this is the I'm trying to capture their audio the best we can. It took me forever to realize when Ian finally told me that he was in his basement. I go you can't be in your basement because my audio was terrible. So you know I'm struggling getting the best audio and

Unknown Speaker: 40:00

But this is what we do. And this is self created content. And this is a running series. So that's why I wanted to add another if we're going to do this exercise, I wanted a whole nother thing to review and get feedback on. So that's so here is the opening.

Unknown Speaker: 40:20

Tonight on metal mayhem Roc we continue our series, the history of metal, we're highlighting the year 1984. underground metal is exploding when Metallica Slayer, sabotage and merciful fate. The big guns get bigger Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and scorpions and Van Halen all with career albums. All that and more metal mayhem Roc next.

Unknown Speaker: 40:45

Good evening, everybody. It's Thursday night. It's time for a brand new episode. As always visit the metal mayhem roc.com website. There you'll find direct Spotify links, Apple podcasts and Stitcher. Do us a favor, download some past shows rate and review, subscribe to the podcast.

Unknown Speaker: 41:05

And there's so there's the intro. And as soon as I heard the one word, I was like, Oh, I know. Eric is going to have some comments on this intro. So I'll let you go. I'm predictable.

Unknown Speaker: 41:18

In this, you talk to everybody. Hey, everybody, you know, hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. And it's old school radio to talk to everybody. Now that everybody is listening in their earbuds or their ear pods or whatever their headphones in, they're no longer everybody. It's now a one on one conversation. So I would highly recommend as you go through these episodes like this, bring me in as a listener, as the fourth person at your table. And so it's just, it's Hey, welcome to the show. It's good to see you. Thank you. No, it's, it's me, John. And in Rockstar, Rick and my other buddy over here, you know, it's the four of us having a conversation, rather than everybody we're performing for you. Because it's not the audience isn't a collective anymore. It's you're talking to a single individual listening while they're working out or riding their bike or whatever they're doing. The thing I as I listened to this just now is like, you know what's really cool about this, you have just the right amount of energy, because you're not going Hey, welcome to the mental mayhem show. And you're not going Hey, everybody, welcome to the model. You know, it's like, you're excited, but you're not puke voice angry, that was just I was like, you know, that's just the right amount of like, because when we when you get on a mic, you got to talk a little bit more excited than usual. And that was just I was like, you know, that's just the right amount of and it's be easy to get carried away on a show like this and be too over the top.

Unknown Speaker: 42:54

It's, you're right in the pocket. It's solid. Thank you. I had saw you mentioned something two words at the beginning of this interview. And that's Wayne's World. And we try to stay 180 away from Wayne's World. Well, meaning what what is what is Wayne's World do that you don't want to do? We're not here to drink beers and tell fart jokes and be Wayne's World. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay. You don't want to be the stick you want to be? Right. It's st of the genre and educate. Yeah. And where we try to make it like or like what you talked about, make it that that listeners the fourth member. That's the goal. We're just sitting around here to talk and talking about these bands. And we flat out say, look it, it's 1984. There's a gazillion bands, but we're not going to bore you and talk about everyone. What we're going to do is talk about the year 1984 And the bands that had the biggest impact and why they had the impact and how it affected 84 and the golden age of metal and moving on to 85 Because a lot of these bands, were setting it up for the future episodes. And you're telling a story. This is a soap opera. Yeah, when I when I was talking about being Wayne's World, it wasn't the shtick that Wayne's World does. It's the fact that your everyday guys talking to some big time artists, and you don't take yourself too seriously. You're not You're not holier than thou like we hold the keys to the metal kingdom and you shall bow to us because we are the ones that talk to all the stars. You're legit, which is really cool and but you're still me you're like you and I could go have a beer at the at the bar. Like you're still everyday guy, which is what I appreciate about the show. And the the other thing you do that I was like, Well, that's exactly what you're supposed to do is you introduced metal, you know Jim bobbin

Unknown Speaker: 45:00

And you know, whoever, etc. And they all are like, what's up, Bubba, it's cold, it's snowing. And that was about it. Like, there was like five seconds each of what I call cat talk. And they weren't trying to be super funny. That's always like, you always have that one guy. It's like, Oh, I'm gonna do a funny voice and whatever, you know, yeah, they're just like, hey, I'm here, let's get to the metal kind of thing. And I was really, because you had four people, and you just jumped in here. And in that way, we all got to know what each other sounds like, then you're off to the races. When you put a name with a voice. Yeah, three people, me metal wall. And in. That's right, that whole wall that's the guy can't remember metal wall, metal wall. And everyone has that we're a team and everyone has their role in their position. Perfect. And, you know, I, I forget who you threw it to first. But when they started, like, here's how you're going to suck me in the 1984. And so here's the beginning of the segment. All right, guys, let's go. So 1984 is year four of the decade of heavy metal. In this particular year, you had more releases from those big bands from North American Europe. And I think what we really saw here was that continued growth and emergence in the 80s rock or in other words, that back hair metal term that we really don't like.

Unknown Speaker: 46:22

In that category, there's, you know, at least six or more debut releases from you know, what would be to be very well known acts. And then in the more traditional heavy metal category with there are also other a lot of other great debuts. So some of these we'll talk about in detail a little bit later. But as I've encouraged listeners to do in the past, you know, make your own list, take a look, there's a lot of material out there in these years that we obviously can't cover everything. So on on one hand, I really, it's obviously you guys have done some research. You know, he's got all these things. But the big takeaway from that clip was

Unknown Speaker: 47:04

people released music in 1984, because he didn't give me any names didn't give me um, so for me, that's why I asked like, Who is the target audience for this? Because there are parts of this that I really liked. Like, I love the trivia, because I lived this stuff. And so I'm looking for stuff that I didn't know. So when you say there's a rush song that doesn't have bass in it, I was like, What? No way. You know, that was cool. But there were times when it was just like this happened. And then this happened. And I like, yeah, I was there. And so I wasn't sure how much of this was to school, the youngins. But, Eric, what your thoughts on the clip I just played? I completely agree to me. This entire episode, John feels like it's a lot of facts and information. And not a lot of the three of you. And there's not a lot of conversation. There's not a lot of debate. There's Alright, John, you do your part. All right. Well, you do your part. All right, Ian, you do your part. And because there's not a lot of opinion, you're just teaching.

Unknown Speaker: 48:18

To me, it really doesn't feel like the three of you are necessary. Like you could have done all of this yourself. What I would have liked to have seen on this episode, John, is rather than going a mile wide and an inch deep. I wish I would have counted the number of bands that you name on this episode, because it's a ton. I mean, you said you didn't want to talk about everybody. To me, I'm thinking who's left. Like we talked about a ton of bands. In this episode, we talked about everybody, because you each gave like your best like, here's my best, you know, my five best or six best or whatever best. And then you all gave you're also RANS, too, but it was all just it was like well, Van Halen released 1984. And they, and they opened with keyboards, and I wasn't really sure what the deal was. And then they started rocking my face off, and I really liked it. And the hot for teacher teacher was hot and she's 70 Holy crap. We're old. But it was all facts. It was all facts. I didn't hear you go in your full crap like 84 was not the best out like you. You're already in mind. You did it a little bit when you said yeah, I'm not a Hagar fan. You I give you credit. You'd like Hagar. Not for me. Not you know, Footloose soundtrack you're out of your mind. i Okay, whatever. I dropped the ball on this is it because 85 on. Exactly what you just talked about when we hit our meetings in is exactly what I said. I'm like, Guys, we it has to be more of us. Because the next one I actually produced

Unknown Speaker: 50:00

drops, ticking clocks? A minute, minute and a half, two minutes when I said, and we would were there was a timer. And at 8485 that's when we turned a corner on the ninth. I shouldn't give any 1986 because that is exactly how it was. It was good. We're talking about poison. And I was like, you know, Ian was talking about poison. I'm like in poison socked. Hey, what you're talking about, but

Unknown Speaker: 50:31

and I dropped the ball on this one. But yeah, that's all that adds more depth to it. What I would do is narrow the number of bands you talk about, like, make everybody pick their album from 1986. Right. And then you can talk about there were other albums that came out in 86. But that's my one, right? Because, like on this on this episode you went, I think, and that's when rap came out. I wouldn't really consider them glam because they weren't dressed. They didn't wear as much eyeliners Twisted Sister. We all liked right. Okay, great. Like, like,

Unknown Speaker: 51:05

I'm gonna I'm gonna challenge you, you know, you've taken an interest in this.

Unknown Speaker: 51:10

Go to metal mayhem Roc.

Unknown Speaker: 51:13

And like, listen to 1986 it because actually, what we did was because I said, we got it, we got to mix this up. Because there we have videos of these on our YouTube channel to where I'm like, Okay, we're only going to do like 16 or 17 bands, and I actually put them in a little jar as a visual aid. And I shook it up and I pulled out a name. I'm like, Okay, we're talking about blah blah, blah. And I set the timer I go two minutes. That's it. And at the 10 second mark, it came up and it was it don't want to bust my god I thought, oh, yeah, that kind of get that kind of game of faiz it. If you think about that metal show, you know, I saw where you interviewed Jim from that show. That was half the fun of that show. And they had to do a top 10 ACDC albums and they're like, how can no you can't put you know, Let There Be Rock below. So that kind of stuff because then you also get into the why because some of this was very wiki pedia you know, so and so released this album, and it was big and they had lots of hits. And I was like, okay, but then somebody else said I think it was I forget it was he was doing a track by track I think of Judas Priest, and he was going into to the why. But also on the other hand when you can't play the music when you start explaining like, Oh, I love the part that's like a roller coaster. I'm like, Yeah, I can't hear that and it's not doing anything. At least it wasn't for me and I love that by the way, but I was like we're going knee deep into something that just makes me want to turn off your podcast and listen to that song now I have to emphasize a lot of the reason why I wanted to do this other one the second one wasn't so much the content it was more of the nuts and bolts of the production is that is the quality good this and that some some advice some feedback on that well because like I said we we've pivoted and so I go ahead I got two quick clips this one was the stuff that was like cool basically kissing cousins to rush triumph released the album thunder seven now interesting Interestingly enough, this was actually a concept or like concept based on on time related situations you know changes in time time travel different things like that. Huge album for is huge fan of triumph, Rick M It's amazing. I know that album as soon as he said it, I started hearing the one where it was like acapella time, time time. And I was like, I never knew that was a concept album or like concept album as he put it. So that in the trivia about rush having a song that didn't have bass and all the trivia stuff. Now, I think I have a clip of you talking about the one album that came with a some sort of dog collar or something like that. Yeah, all that stuff. neck brace, church. Yeah. All the hanger neck race. Yeah, all the stuff that you can't do on Wikipedia or isn't on Wikipedia, but super fans would appreciate. I was all about it. We're gonna we're gonna circle back for three seconds for this clip. And you've already said why you didn't add it. But this was the stuff I'm talking about. Doing some recording. So with that being said, community at the time, and 10 bands of the 70s to reunite. Go forward. So somebody left their sound effects. The one I am really damn, it was the actual audio from the show. Yeah. All of a sudden, it's like bring and I was like, oh again. This is the nitpicky corner, just again. Um, so we'll get that up. And then when I heard this, I knew Eric again was going to get triggered. So

Unknown Speaker: 55:00

for the listeners, if you haven't thought of this album for a while, do yourself a favor, dust this one off and crank it, you will not regret it. And of course, Eric, you're going to say

Unknown Speaker: 55:11

that for the listeners doesn't even really need to be in there. Like if he just says, Hey, if you haven't dusted this one off in a while, this wouldn't really be worth a listen. So whether he's talking to you or talking to me or whoever, he's still making that one on one connection. But when he says, for the listeners, that means the people outside of our conversation that are not in that are not worthy to be in the room with us. They're the people out there, not the people in here. But when I just say, man, if you haven't dusted that one off, you might want to give that one a listen, because it's got some power to it. Then you're like, Oh, cool. Thanks for the tip. I'll go do that. So just another way to bring people in? Yeah, well, just I just mentioned the dog collar thing. This clip has to two parts of it. The trivia is great. But there's another thing about this, another band I had a chance to see in their infant stages. And funny thing enough in their merchandise flyer and the inner sleeve of the album, they had the metal church neck brace that you could purchase. So what that did is I saw them as a young band. It's a very subtle, but yet definitely works street cred. You know, I mean, I saw these guys when they were coming up. So I thought that was another cool kind of subtle way without saying, you know, back in my day, you don't know who I am and who I was like, No, by the way, I saw these guys when they were in this band. So yeah, I'm just saying, as we're listening to the clips, John, I don't hear a lot of technical issues, you know, some bumps and stuff. I don't know which of the two it was because I wasn't able to pick it out as I was listening. But one of them either bumps there might be a lot or bumps their counter, and it reverberates through their mic or some they're doing something and I can't figure out what it is because it doesn't happen often enough. And it doesn't happen consistently when one of the two is talking. But somebody's bumping something. And occasionally. I think it's I think it's in who has I gave I sent him a microphone. And he

Unknown Speaker: 57:18

he has this setup on his desk with boxes and everything. I'm like, I'm like, Dude, you're making us so much harder. You do this, you know?

Unknown Speaker: 57:32

Yeah, right. That's exactly what he's doing. That's it. If you would, and I have to literally say when I found out I told you this when I found out he was in his basement. Why are you in your basement? He goes well, because some reason I go okay, do you have a spare bedroom at your house? He goes yeah, I go is a carpeted he goes yeah, I said as their curtains in there. Yeah. Is there a bed with comforters? Yeah, go get your ass up there.

Unknown Speaker: 58:03

That's your new studio congratulate

Unknown Speaker: 58:08

kale, it's a challenge because I'm trying to capture the audio as good as possible. And but in terms of the other ones just make it a make it a running gag like Ian's in his workshop. You know, every time he's he's bumping stuff. You're like, yeah, Ian's over there in the workshop, tinker and in the tools again.

Unknown Speaker: 58:29

But because they don't you know, I watch a lot of your things. And, you know, I cringe to when I hear some of these other podcasts and you're like, What is this guy in a cave? What you know what is going on? And they have no idea. And I see I don't guys, I don't have this. This is why I did this because I don't have a soundboard. It's me myself and I it's, you know, does that sound good? Does that not sound good? I've spent a lot of money on

Unknown Speaker: 58:59

just education, education and but does it sound alright? I mean, can it sound better?

Unknown Speaker: 59:07

Can always sound better? I don't have any issue with the way it sounds. To me I can tell the three of you are in different locations. It doesn't sound like you're in a professional studio and he's in a in a subway. You know, they're close enough to be to be legit. It sounds it sounds decent. I wouldn't I wouldn't concern myself making it 10 notches better. Why gave each of them at least microphones. Okay, so they both have windscreens they have muffs on them on their mics. Yeah, I they were

Unknown Speaker: 59:41

great question I better check. You know, well that

Unknown Speaker: 59:46

one of them has some breathing one of them one of them get Do you have a clip of it? Later their day? Yeah, let me while Yeah. This is the clip. I just played this but if you listen to men in the middle

Unknown Speaker: 1:00:00

because there's clips that kind of popped it out, but you'll hear one where it kind of goes. It's pretty I was like, wow, doing some recording. So with that being said community at the time, and 10 bands of the 70s to reunite, go forward.

Unknown Speaker: 1:00:17

So we had a desk smack we had a and then and that sounded like usually that kind of thing because people don't breathe like that. Usually that means you ran it through a phonic, which is this kind of cool compressor, Noise Removal kind of thing. But if you do breathe a little louder than maybe normally a little too close to the microphone, all phonic sees that breath, which is normally you know, almost an audible but now listen, it's an it takes that and makes it and you're like, oh, because it thinks it's words. So I don't know if that's if you're running it through all phonic or a compressor, but sometimes compressors come back to bite you in the butt. No, I'm not.

Unknown Speaker: 1:00:58

No, I don't. I imported, bring it in from the Roadster. Because it's multitrack. Everyone. Unfortunately, those two are on the zoom. So they're on one track. I can't really treat it. I'm ISO, but I'm also in my home studio run through, you know, yeah, I would just make sure that they both have their muffs on their mics. And I think that will Yeah, that will help it a little bit. There's a guy on YouTube does a show called podcast IGE. And he said he always had them go, please bring Pizza Pronto. And that will get that and in make sure, you know, because a lot of people think they're David Lee Ross. So they're going to talk right into the microphone. And Mike. Yeah, you don't don't need that I both Eric and I kind of pointed at the corners of our mouths. We're good to go. And that works. But no, I've heard so much worse. You know, the one guy I forgot it might have been metal is at Walt Yes. He's got a little more bass on his mic and actually kind of helped identify who's who, because they don't sound like and it's not based in a bad way. Again, I especially I always like to listen to these Why walk around, as well as sitting in a quiet room. Because you don't realize how much in some cases, just the background noise of the car or whatever. Like it sounds great when you're quiet room, but all of a sudden when you get out someplace and you've got the sound of tires. Okay, now I can't hear your guest anymore, but I didn't run into any of that stuff. So sound wise, I thought it was, you know, I tried to get it. Minus three to minus five.

Unknown Speaker: 1:02:37

Yep. The other question I had was you went to a commercial break, get yourself up to metal devastation. radio.com. And join me for some heavy metal live radio style. So right now we're going to send it back to wall and so we're sending it back to wall but the other question is, I'm assuming metal devastation radio is not yours. And they'll give you a spot

Unknown Speaker: 1:03:03

that's where I have the live radio show. But is that yours?

Unknown Speaker: 1:03:08

The live radio shows mine but metal devastation radio was not mine. Okay, because so it's somebody who owns metal devastation radio, basically, you're filling the slot. Okay, cuz I was like, that's a confusing brand thing. Like why wouldn't it be metal mayhem rock live or something like that. But it's because it's, that's the channel. You're the show. So I got that. I have my live radio show on that network. Right. And Monday night's not this show, right? It's the thing that says, well, that said it because it was kind of it for the first time I heard I was like, wait, is he running a commercial for his own show? I'm like, I'm listening to that show. And then it dawned on me, it's a live version or whatever, listen to it. It's actually you're playing some really cool tunes on it and things like that. So it is different. So you're, you're running an advertisement for your live show, which is what I got. But it took me a second to like, Wait, did he start a second pot? No, that's the network. And I got away from that because people are from nickel ridiculous. You know.

Unknown Speaker: 1:04:12

They just they don't understand I on my burnout buddies. You know, they go to the website, and they think they're listening to the live radio show. And they're hitting the play button for the podcast. And it's exhausting guys. You know, it's cool. Feel your pain? Yeah. And we were talking earlier about how you know, we don't just want facts, we kind of want some commentary and Eric had had pulled this clip and every boy that like Twisted Sister took their pen out and had that T 's logo and trenched on their notebook. But you know, so sort of putting the hits aside, the rest of the album is really good. So it was more than a commentary and I think you already brought up the the rat thing and that was interesting, because we're like, well, now they're kind of sleaze, but not quite. I was laughing at the different that's what it was. It was sleazy, they weren't laughing

Unknown Speaker: 1:05:00

They were asleep. Yeah, just little things like that little insights that lets us it. Let your personality come out on the show a little bit more. And I'm, I'm glad to hear that you're bringing more of that in in future years and future episodes that you do. Because it's obvious listening to this episode, you are you all three of you are very knowledgeable about this genre, especially the decade we get it. We but it's almost overload because you give me so much overload because when you're telling me everything you know, about every band there is, rather than one of the guys I might have been in was like, that's my favorite priest album of all, like, every cut on there is not one I don't like and like, that's what I want to know. Like, okay, cool. He's a priest fan. He's into the whole thing. Like he's, he knows enough about every one of the elements. You know, that's the one that that he listened to hands down. Again, I my own producer, so, yeah, air. I'm the producer. I'm the fan. It's just like, there's no soundboard. It's just you know, so there's a lot of trial and error. And, you know, I listened to a lot of podcasts, not, you know, metal ones, I listen to a lot of stuff. That's all I listen to. And

Unknown Speaker: 1:06:20

it's, I have a vision, and you're, we're, and we work hard, and we're like, okay, we listened to and I'm like, Okay, well, we could get better. It has to get better. It has to, we have to trim the fat. And I tell the guys more honest, less, spitting out facts. Last bands more us more, we literally have to be like we're around a campfire. And you know, after that second beer, you loosen up a little. And you're like, Oh, dude, you've always been into that band. And they've always sought and are still defending these guys. Well, yeah, you're on the right track, you're going right down the right path. I think you're, when it comes to content, it's solid. And I don't have any real big issues with the production quality of it. The things Dave and I are bringing up tonight, you're saying you want to take that next step and bring that listener in is that fourth person, we're just giving you those little nuances that you can go in, like just using you rather than everybody is something your listeners probably won't even consciously realize. But it will be just that little tweak that you can make that will bring them in and make them feel more part of the show.

Unknown Speaker: 1:07:38

And if you want that kind of campfire thing. I'm going to steal some Eric's lunch is the and I'm surprised you haven't brought it up yet. The the like I'm not throwing things to Eric, you seem to throw things to people a lot, which sounds very, channel 11 news at 11. We're going to Eric now to get his opinion on the tease at the end of the show. And I'm not in again, this is where I go. Is it a podcast or a radio show? Because there's there's certain things that I was like, this is kind of a media thing. Hey, I'm gonna throw it over to Eric now to explain what he thinks about throwing it to people. Well, you know, you're right. And part of what I did was, I said, Listen, we're at a disadvantage, because we don't have any eye contact here. We're in three different spots. So that's when and 85. we pivoted to doing it on Zoom. I go because we need to be able to see each other. So you weren't on Zoom seen each other on this episode? Oh, it wasn't until he already filed that explains

Unknown Speaker: 1:08:43

explains a world of difference. I thought you guys could all see each other because it makes it easier to do John when you can't see each other. Dave does it a lot right here where Dave will go? Well, you know, this whole throwing your thing to each other. Dave, you had? What do you think about throwing it to each other? You know, just ask him the question. So like, if you're going to in on his top three favorite albums, you know, I said, Well, you know, those are my three favorite albums. And what about you? What do you think? What What was your overall thought in 1984? And he goes, 84 was the best year yet, you know, here are my three out. So you just kind of asked him a question or just kind of make reference to what's on your list en or what do you got her and you thought you had a thought on that? Or you and I were just talking about that the other day or just kind of acknowledge him and then let him roll. And I'm telling you it's that's why I said 10 times I dropped the ball by sending you

Unknown Speaker: 1:09:45

it's I think we're on the same page. We're on

Unknown Speaker: 1:09:49

the because I said like I said, I said we

Unknown Speaker: 1:09:53

couldn't see each other. That's crazy. That's amazing. Now it makes it even better. So in terms of

Unknown Speaker: 1:10:00

Looking at the content, we'll we'll end on a positive before we jump in your website. And both Eric and I agree, we talked about this at the beginning about how to do a good tease. And this is a great tease. But to give a little, let's say, teaser, it's about some of the other things that painted the picture of 85. You know, there were some major personnel changes in two major bands.

Unknown Speaker: 1:10:25

Let's say the heavy metal flag was flown, you know, high and mighty and strong and proud at a very big event that took place in DC by a heavy metal icon. And that's just a small part of I mean, the T's went on for a while the whole time, because I'm like, wait, it was 85 two bands.

Unknown Speaker: 1:10:44

Okay, Zeppelin, nope, Pink Floyd. So really got me. And that's exactly what you want is like, Okay, I gotta, anytime you can get your audience going, I wonder what happens next. Or I need to know that there's a sort of scientific principle that, like, your brain gets a little like, it can't let go until it gets to close the loop. Yeah. One thing about a tease, you want to give about 80% of the information, but leave out the most critical 20%. But the most important part of a tease is make it so they can't google it.

Unknown Speaker: 1:11:20

Because if you give me too much information, and I go Google it, I don't have to come back for the show. The fact that you said DC I can go Google that now. Had you left out the DC part. And you would have just said two bands flying the flag and you know, a big event Navy for you know, we'll reveal all of that come on at five and we'll reveal all that coming up.

Unknown Speaker: 1:11:43

But it was if it see right there at the very end right before he paused it you said there was they said two big acts at a big big metal event in DC and 85. Oh, it was Live Aid. Oh, see. There you go. See he's google it. Yeah, it was Live Aid and because 8519 85 July 85, and so would have been the scorpions and no, Pink Floyd Led Zeppelin. Zeppelin and Sabbath. Sabbath. Okay. Yeah, as the Sabbath played together in Zeplin, with

Unknown Speaker: 1:12:18

Sal columns on drums. Interesting. So had you not had had DC not been mentioned, it would have been much more difficult for me to figure out who that was. So don't give too much information on a tease. But this right here was a great tease in terms of what I'm looking for where we talked about at the beginning of the show, create some anticipation and some intrigue, to get people to come back and see what 85 was all about. And when you go to the website again, metal mayhem rock.com. Again, just like the beginning of the show, you're like, Okay, I know this is a metal show, when you go to the website and you're like yeah, this is I don't think we're going to be talking Britney Spears on this site. You know, it's

Unknown Speaker: 1:13:02

the colors are fantastic. The the fonts are amazing. This whole website I love Well, the page I clicked on where the fire was coming at me that was the stall. It's not too cliche, because that stock

Unknown Speaker: 1:13:18

now No, because it's not it's not your standard rock skull. This is like a decomposed, rotting skull. It's awesome. I love it. All. Metal guy in that school is pretty badass. Like most of the schools you see on keychains and mudflaps are pretty, pretty cliche. This one here it looks pretty badass, because I don't know what those things are coming off of his jowls there but man, it's, it's awesome. The Amber's and then when you scroll down in there's the part where Eric was talking about you got fire in the background for you. And I love the fact that you've got you know, the buttons here to subscribe right there on the front. If you got room, I would be tempted to put a button up here, just so that if I'm not if I haven't scrolled down, because you really that's that's the, you know, the golden ring, you want people to follow and subscribe. But the thing that I was really that confused me on it, because you got your social media here, you got your email list, you've got your sponsors there at the bottom. And it's got information on it, which is great, but it's not too cluttered. A lot of times, even this part with the sponsors, lot of whitespace there, so it doesn't look like you're just trying to cram everything on the front page. I thought it had a nice flow to it. The one that confused me, is when I went to listen, I expected to go to your episodes with a description with clickable links. And when I click on that, I said oh, here it is the I want to go to you know, mental mayhem rock podcast. So I click on that, and it takes me to Spotify. And I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but Spotify descriptions are absolutely just

Unknown Speaker: 1:15:00

worse. So when I click on this, yes, I see the description, but they don't make clickable links. I don't know if that's different on the app. But the other thing is, and this is where, like knee jerk reaction was, here's all these words, and they're in Spotify. This should be on your website, because that's how you you get Google. Like, if somebody like browner, like, holy cow, he talked to Steve Vai. That's really cool. And, you know, I love the fact you've got your links here, and then everything you talked about. But I later found out that if I go back to your website, which took me to all sorts of weird places, you actually do have the description. It's under blog. And so when I clicked here, I was like, Oh, here's all the words for your descriptions and such. And I was like, okay, so it is here. So I would be tempted to change the word blog to episodes, I found the the episode for 1984. And that's where I was like, Wow, you guys really do have a great description here. And you can kind of you could follow along with the episode here. And the only thing that I think, here is none of these have again, I understand why, as Eric said, you mentioned 400 bands and said there's a lot which is great. You did your research in such an aspect when you said man of war, I was I salute you. I was like I saw a man of war many moons ago. I'm not sure how much of your goal is to make money with this, but you could link if they're on there because I realized Amazon music is not as cool as Spotify and things like that, but they do have an affiliate program. And there would be a trickle of income if you're looking for that. But none of these were linked. I don't know Eric, do you think these need to be linked? I mean, if that's why I go back be a lot of work. I mean, it's your give me some give me some Google juice, you know, with with backlinks and such. But you know, it would be a lot of work. So it is a lot of work and

Unknown Speaker: 1:17:03

I'll let you finish your thought and I'll well I just I just when I saw this I was like oh, these are the show notes. I just to me a blog is text only. That's what a blog is. And you've got your player here and again. Who Who cares right that's where splitting hairs but I just expected others elicit now button here. So that's good. But I just for me, just my knee jerk reaction going to the website. I clicked on listen and expected to see what is on your website, the blog. And so well, I'm looking for my mouse. So scroll down. Well.

Unknown Speaker: 1:17:41

This is the the episode. That's the last of the latest episode, right? Why is that up? There? Is this live? This is live. Yeah, we're on your website.

Unknown Speaker: 1:17:52

So the latest episode, which you can do I believe in in Spotify is tool. You know, if I want to go listen to that Don Dokken interview that you did, I was a huge darkened fan. I would go to listen, and you're driving everybody to Spotify, which you know, it is a metal show. It's a music show is like I guess that's that but it is the number two platform. I use that episode on there and not the

Unknown Speaker: 1:18:21

it's such an old episode. Why isn't our new episode on there? Time to time to get the web?

Unknown Speaker: 1:18:29

But and then you do have the thing here in the middle again, your your radio show your live one. So that's there,

Unknown Speaker: 1:18:37

too trying to use anything. Have you ever tried merch?

Unknown Speaker: 1:18:43

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker: 1:18:45

Because there's that's what's I just had the meeting with the guy tonight. Okay, because the logo is his prime for Yeah, I was like, Okay, I mean, I know a lot of people that have tried merch, and usually you're not going to retire on that. But I'm with Eric, I was like, Man, this is graphically. This is a great website. I was like, you know, we might want to throw that on a pocket or something or on a shirt or? Well, this is this is the plan. And the reason I work with another outlet that has guided me through a lot of this, and we segwayed from the cheesy GoDaddy Website to this Kajabi site, because the goal is the beginning of the year to create a pay platform.

Unknown Speaker: 1:19:35

Somehow login up there in the menu. Yes. And so we hit will. It's a long term goal. And

Unknown Speaker: 1:19:45

we have tons of ideas on how do you get someone to pay $5 a month to become part of the metal mayhem maniac club. Everything from Hey, join the club and you can be Joe

Unknown Speaker: 1:20:00

Join us for an interview with Biff by furtive Saxon, you can do this. And it's just like porn. You're not going to give them the money shot, you get like, now all of a sudden, it'll get to the point where we have an interview, I'll use sex and Best Buy for it of Saxon.

Unknown Speaker: 1:20:19

We do this, the free portion of it is you're going to hear the first 20 minutes of Bev talking about the new sex and album and plans for touring. Join the maniac club, you hear the rest of the story where he talks about touring with Ozzy and ADA and how as he really did snort ants, and all that meat and potato stuff. And there's a whole world of ideas to get people to spend $5 a month. One thing I want to want to warn you about because you said a word that makes me kind of goofy, which is Kajabi, phenomenal marketing tool and email list and all that other stuff.

Unknown Speaker: 1:21:01

Do not put your main podcast on Kajabi. And here's why. They are a marketing tool that minors in podcasting. And I've because I work at Libsyn. I run into this a couple times a month, where somebody has moved to Kajabi for their podcast, they still love Kajabi as a marketing thing, but they're like, they're not really the best at podcasting. So they want to move back. Not the and the problem is because Kajabi doesn't really understand podcasting. There's a there's a thing called the geeky term is it's a redirect, it's like a change of address. So that if you do leave Kajabi you can basically say, Hey, guys, I'm over here at Buzzsprout or Lipson or blueberry whoever. Kajabi doesn't have that. So whatever podcast you put on Kajabi is going to stay there or you're good on it. On Kajabi. Yeah, okay, I have everything on pod bean. Okay, well, good. So I'm just just letting you know, when I hear Kajabi I just always want to let people know, great marketing platform, I definitely do not recommend them for your podcasts. If you want to do premium stuff I would use there's a ton supercast glo.fm is owned by Libsyn. You got Patreon. All those things like that as well, though, something else just to throw in there just to give you some expectations when it comes to premium content. When when I interviewed people for my book, and Adam curry just said this, the guy that invented podcasting, he's, he's up to 4% of his audience. So if you got 100 people listening per episode, if you're really good, you might get four. So I'm not here to be Dave Jackson dream Crusher. No, no, no, no, no. But it's it's, you know what? It's a goal. Yeah. And it's, it's we're building we're building Yeah, what where we are tonight, and six months, we're gonna look back and say, or that night I hung out with, you know, Eric and Dave and I learned so much. And in six months, when we do this again, you're gonna be like, Alright, you've done your heavy metal homework. I like to see what you've done. And it's not a one and done. You know, I'll use you guys again. It's all information. Yeah, and go ahead, Eric. I heard you breathe. Yeah, I was just gonna say overall with the website, I love the white space, which is actually black space on your website. But I love the color scheme. I love the cleanness of it the way it's laid out. I'd love that little the fire embers. That's pretty cool.

Unknown Speaker: 1:23:41

Just a couple of things that confused me. If I click in the menu bar on like blog, two of the menu options go away and I don't know why that is. It only gives me home blog contact login, so I don't have the listen and I don't have the meet the guys on the show links anymore.

Unknown Speaker: 1:24:01

So I don't know why those go away.

Unknown Speaker: 1:24:05

I would adjust your newsletter. I think people want to be in the know the newsletter, you give a benefit. But it's it's pretty lackluster, to be honest. Become part of the, the newsletter, so you can get updates on episodes and interviews and such. You know, give me something like, give me some juice that I get. Like, you know, I'll be the first to know about the inside scoop or something. Give me Give me something that entices me to sign up. Nobody's waking up in the morning going, Man, I sure hope I get another newsletter in my inbox today. So you got to give them a reason more than just because you say I get to learn about new episodes. Well, if I'm subscribed on my app, I don't need to I don't need you to email me about it. I just get it when I open my app. So oh

Unknown Speaker: 1:25:00

Uh, so I would give a little more juice to that. And then I'm with Dave clicking the Listen, the Listen now and the Listen drop down both of them take me over to Spotify. I'm not a fan of leave of getting people to leave your site, if you want to keep it like that I would have, see if you can have that open in a new tab. So your what your site is still open on their browser and they can get back to it easily. Well, I'm confused if they where should it go? If you click the listen now, it should go here. Go to your blog, what your calling blog should be listen, because I can go here and listen to all of your episodes. Now when you when you click that, where does it go? When I click this, that should take you to the page where I can scroll down. And there's another place Oh, when dad when I wear that go? Oh, hopefully not.

Unknown Speaker: 1:25:57

No, it's playing the thing right here. Yeah, yeah. So the when I click on blog, it takes me to kind of the episode directory. So I see all of your episodes. Then I click on an episode and it opens that episode page where I can play and listen. Can you play it from right there? Dave? Can you play on your player?

Unknown Speaker: 1:26:20

Yep, yeah, so I can listen to right here on the directory page too. So I would I would eliminate the Listen link and I would change the blog link to listen

Unknown Speaker: 1:26:33

Yeah, the blog takes a minute to do is you know Yeah, yeah, that's the Arielle and you know, and you can hit it looks great. Your episode show notes look fantastic. Yeah. The other you put some work into it and I love it. Yeah, the other thing that was kind of confusing because here when I click on blog, I go to the blog, which is great when I click on contact, then went right to contact okay, I swear last night when I did this there What does on from the homepage, go to the homepage and then click on it

Unknown Speaker: 1:27:03

yeah, there it is. I have to click on contact and that just saying that that first contact should be a button it should go right to Yeah, I'm not sure I need Yeah, yeah. So just need to drop down the contact Yeah, yes. contacts the only drop down in contact so just make it go straight to the contact page rather than like Like your other pages do when the right when the menu bar shortens? Yeah, overall, I thought the website Brock Yeah. I love your color scheme. I love your graphics. It looks in your face enough but still professional. Well, thank you see people don't understand that. The

Unknown Speaker: 1:27:44

what's involved in all this? Yeah, yeah. Really don't understand. And

Unknown Speaker: 1:27:50

I'm constantly learning and obviously I'm investing time energy and money. Yeah. How many episodes do you have out? Oh, we're over. 100. Nice. Yeah, you're rocking it. I have a passion. I like my Did you read my bio? Yeah, it's it's Madeline. It's media. I love it. I you know, it's just a lot of podcasts. I listened to, um, media guys, Jimmy traina. Yorklyn and a lot of the the industry guys,

Unknown Speaker: 1:28:22

you know, I listened to everyone. And I am guilty of making the podcast or radio, because I love radio and I listened to a lot. Well, that's when I read your bio. Again, that was one of those like, Oh, this is why yes guy has a radio flavor is he lives and breathes radio. So but the benefit of that is it gives you that professionalism, you know, you're doing it doesn't, you know, you know your way around a mic, which is awesome. Just keep helping in and Walt learn their way, you know, they're not going to be perfect, but that makes that's what makes them lovable. And that's what makes the show authentic. You know, you don't want it to polished. Like that's, that's why I don't want you to go take all the items out that Dave suggests, because sometimes it gets sterile and it gets too clean. Right? It doesn't sound like it's an authentic and an occasional, um, when you or your guests stops to think for a minute. It gets your audience to lean in and try and predict what you're going to say. So an occasional arm or occasional pregnant pause is really a benefit on your show. Sometimes. I know you haven't listened to a lot of it, but how much editing Do you think I do?

Unknown Speaker: 1:29:34

I it's hard to tell because when I listened to Well, that's the good news. I don't hear any edits. You know what I mean? So it's when all of a sudden some Yeah, that's you don't want to hear I don't want to hear a jump cut from a YouTube video. In my audio podcasts. I literally because I capture the audio you know we do this. It's just like making a movie. I capture all this. Then I inventory everything and I you know

Unknown Speaker: 1:30:00

aren't going through it maybe to a fault, where, you know, I put a lot of time into it, but I actually craft the episode and oh my god, I gotta I gotta tell him I got dude, I love you, bro. But get to the point, you know to talk a lot. But you know what? Stay bet a shirt. Because while you're being mean I go no, I love you, man. But forward momentum, you gotta keep forward momentum or you lose people, like so many people ask Dave and I How long is too long? And it's not, it's as long as the forward momentum keeps the story moving forward. You can do an hour and a half episode. But we got to keep moving forward. I can't start repeating. Like I said, like I said, like I told you, like I said, then that, you know, now we're treading water. And I'm out. So I have a couple couple questions. Greg.

Unknown Speaker: 1:30:50

How long is too long for an episode? And I know you just sort of answered it. But Dave, is there? Is there documentation? Is there data that but the data is

Unknown Speaker: 1:31:02

30 and 45 minutes? Yeah, the data is crap. It it comes in the last time I heard about it was like back in 2005. And somebody did a study and they said the average commute in America is 20 minutes. And everybody was like, that's it. I gotta make my podcast 20 minutes. And yet, Rob Walsh has done studies on this. And he looks like the top 200. And all of them are like an hour, if not more. And I mean, I've heard, you know, an hour and a half podcast that sounded like it was 10 minutes. And I've heard 10 minute podcasts that I was like, Oh, my god, is this over yet? So I did an episode once I get asked a lot about interviews. And I just got tired of answering questions. I said, You know what, doing a brain dump. And mostly my episodes, I have my segments I'm going to talk about and when I'm done, I tap out. That's it. And usually it's around 30 to 50 minutes. And you know, I'm not doing the Dave Jackson Power Hour. And I've got 38 minutes worth of content. And I'm just going to talk about Mr. Whiskers for the other 20 to figure out what I'm going to say. And then when I'm done saying it, that's it. And I do what I do. Now, this is just me, because I'm a little ad I'm a lot add, is I actually write out a blog, because I have to figure out what is what is it I'm trying to say? Because when I don't, it's all over the place. And then it's more editing. So I spend the time I used to spend editing, now writing out a blog post trying to figure out what do I really want to say. And then what I do is I take like, four bullet points from that, okay, I know what I want to say, this is a nice flow to it, I take four bullet points, I talk to the invisible person across the desk or me. And I don't really do much editing after that you hear them I have my bloopers. And that's just usually because my mouth went home. And I can't say it. But Dan Carlin does four hour long podcast and guy gets millions of downloads. So, you know, it's I don't know if there's any Eric, do you know, from radio or anything like that, or anything you've seen read in the trades that, like what the, you know, is there a you know, golden time I've always just said, you know, make it as long as you know, there's there's not really people stop listening to your show when they're done doing whatever they're doing. So if they're working out, and they're listening to your show, they're going to be done when they're done working out, you know, my favorite shows that I listened to, I listened to a couple. And they're usually between 45 minutes and an hour and 15. And I usually split them up. So I'll listen to him on a on a drive. I'll listen to half of it on the way there and the other half of it on the way home. Like if it's good enough and compelling enough, they'll listen to it in multiple chunks, if that's what it takes. Well, we're conscious of it. That's the thing. I'm too conscious of it. I do the same thing. I look at you know, I have my stitcher account, I got all my guys and I look at what they have a look at the time. And I'm like, okay, um, I usually listen to him when I go to bed, you know, 20 minutes at a time or 20 minutes.

Unknown Speaker: 1:34:04

I know there's no concrete answer. Well, my suggestion, John is to make it consistent. Because people are creatures of habit. And they know what they like. And they like what they know they're going to come to your show expecting something. So deliver that expectation consistently. Don't give them 20 minutes today and an hour and a half tomorrow, in 15 minutes the next day. If they're coming in, they know that that metal mayhem Roc is given me roughly 45 to 60 minutes of in my face rock then consistently give them that there will be an occasional show that's 20 minutes and the occasional show that's an hour and a half and that's okay. But as long as you know when you set it up you go Hey, dudes, today's gonna be short. My I got my kid's birthday party I gotta get to. And so we're gonna we're gonna hammer this real quick. It's gonna be a shorter episode or you

Unknown Speaker: 1:35:00

You know what we're leaving for vacation for the holidays. So we're just going to rock a quick one for you today. Or, you know what we interviewed Dave Jackson today, and he wouldn't stop talking. And it's an hour and a half long. Sorry in advance, but it's chock full of good stuff. And you're gonna love it. Here we go. So the break the rules occasionally. But for most of the time, if you give them consistency, you'll build them build build habits, listening to your show. That's what we do. That's what I do. And that's all you got to do. Downloads, where do I really because they go up, but what's the barometer? Whether you use side with, see how you're doing with engagement? Well, there's should, there's boatloads of stats. So there's the stats. And I think you said you're using pod bean. So you can see how many downloads you have there. In terms of how long is my show, and I wish there was a place you could get this in one spot. But it at least in 2022, that's not an option in podcast connect.apple.com. That's Apple's back in podcasts, they love everything plural, podcast manager.google.com. That's interesting, because you can see how far people listened to and what search terms they typed in to find you. Spotify shows you how far people listen. And Amazon just came out, like this week with a portal, but I don't see that stat. But you do get to see how many followers you have. In all those. It's just so convenient that it's the four different places. And they all have different things like that. So it really depends on your why, like, I'm worried about downloads, if I'm trying to get advertising, I always give an example. The why of my shows, I want to get people to join my membership site. My numbers always go up in January, because everybody in their brothers like this is the year I'm starting a podcast. And my numbers always go down a little bit in February because everybody's like, Okay, well, that was fun. But on the other hand, in February, the number of subscribers went up. So that's really what I'm judging my success of my show on is how many people are joining the school of podcasting. Eric might be how many people are doing that 15 minute free phone call with me or whatever it is, you know, so when my numbers go down, I don't care because I actually my revenue went up. So it really boiled down to why am I doing this? And you know, the one thing I've noticed is, there's nothing better than I run into someone at the store. Like Vern was listening to the podcast the other day, he did an interview on gold. Thanks for listening, because yeah, I've heard a few vishna Man, I have some friends that listen, and they'll they'll report in every couple months. And listen, and things sound really good. Keep it up. And it's, you know that saying someone complains. 10 think that while it goes the other way too, if one or two people compliment you. I just know for myself, everything that I listened to. I never rate and review. One thing to know about rating review. Because this is one of the things it's been repeated so often that people think it's true. They'll go please rate and review it helps me get found. No, no does not it does not describe we've all been saying that Apple finally came out. So this has nothing to do with being found or how search works. It is simply social proof. So you know, you can ask to get ratings and reviews. But in terms of actually, you know helping you get found. No, it's but what it can do then is some people use it because they'll say oh, Jim mom 72 said that her favorite man or album was fighting the world. And then you can do that towards the end of the show. And then maybe turn that into okay, what was your favorite album from 1985? Go out to the website metal mayhem roc.com and click on the contact button and we'll read your answer in a future episode. So yeah, that all of that. I got two more questions all you guys get going on? This is an emotional one. How do I when I look at the other shows out there and how do I not get all worked up? It's like they have more engagement or more interaction? Or how do I not let it eat at me? Well, a little competition is good. But you have to understand that you're not comparing apples to apples. They may have a different connection with somebody than you have. They may be blowing smoke about their engagement, their engagement might be their seven brothers and sisters. You know it. What it looks like from the outside isn't necessarily what it looks like from the inside. control what you can control. If you want more engagement, create a strategy to create more engagement. If you want more downloads, create a strategy to create more downloads. Don't try and go a mile wide and an inch deep. Pick one to three strategies and go all in on those for three to six months to see if you get in each

Unknown Speaker: 1:40:00

traction. And if you don't throw those out, if you do keep those and try something new podcast listeners tend to listen to podcasts. So find other shows, you can be on, find Facebook groups you can go hang out and things like that. If you're looking to grow the audience, you're looking to grow engagement. Tell them specifically what you want them to do. And it's not shoot us an email, because now now you're making me think, but what was your favorite album of 1985? That's our question of the week, hit us up on Facebook and let us know, that's a very specific action that I can do. And now I can go do that without even thinking. So if you want more engagement, make it easy and crystal clear. Don't make your audience think just make them do don't give them a choice. Like when you say, Hey, you can reach out to us send us a message on the website, or search for us on Facebook. I don't want to decide, don't make me decide, send me to one place, because well shoot. Which one? Are they going to check more often? Which one's easier for me to do? They'll have to be on my phone or my laptop? Like how do I screw it? I'm not even going to do it. It's too much work. I've literally said in episodes, and we get between 125 and 175 downloads of an episode. Perfect. Okay.

Unknown Speaker: 1:41:22

I've literally said in these episodes, Hey, you want to pick yourself up a free copy? I'm making this up free copy of The New Deal. rerelease. Reach out to us and getting a drawing. You know, you just don't get any interaction HUD? How do I know there's actually people listening, if I'm not getting engagement, and you're getting downloads studies show at a radio station three to 5% of the listeners actually participate in the contest. Now that was 20 years ago, when people actually participated in the contest. Now we have to give away $1,000 before anybody will pick up the phone and call and they're like, can't I just text. So I really have to call like you. We tell them, hey, grab your iPhone, there's an app on it that allows you to make phone calls, open up that app and type in this number in there. Like the really there's an app on my phone that I can call people. Like, yeah, that's why they call it a phone. If you have 150 people listening, and you say 3% of those actually participate that's 15% that will actually participate if it's enticing enough. And here's the other thing for you, John, nobody wants to be the first. They want to be the next. So you need to prime the pump. And you go, Hey, we're looking for your favorite album in 1985. Dave sent this one. And Dave said his favorite album in 1985 is I don't even know what came out in 80. Billy ocean Caribbean queen. And so

Unknown Speaker: 1:43:04

hey, if you want, you got your favorite album, 1980 We'd love to hear yours. I'm sure it's better than Dave's like, come on, send it to us. The other thing you can do, it's a radio trick I learned I remember, you know, I would hear them. People would call in and say hey, rockin Rick, can you play whatever, and he'd play it. So I called him up and I said, Hey, can you guys play some priests? And they're like, no, but would you like to request Loverboy? And I was like, what? And I'm like, Hey, rockin Ricky, can you play some Loverboy from Germany? Because like on 96 FM, and I was like, oh, that's how that works. Okay, so these people aren't actually calling in and getting their you gotta request what he's going to play. And so business it is. So you I have I have I am guilty of this in the early days of my podcast where I basically had my cousin call in a voicemail. And that was a good question. I wanted to answer it. But I didn't want to say hey, today's question. I said, Hey, call this number, ask this question. And he did. And almost instantly, people started calling that number that like, Oh, is that how that works? So you can kind of prime the pump. It may not be automatic, but it's something to do. You can try it. So my favorite breaks I ever heard this. It was a DJ answers the phone Hi, you know, hi, z 102. And she's like, Hi, can I make a request? He goes Sure. As long as it's Loverboy and she goes, okay, and he goes, thanks for being railroaded by Wizzy 102 goes into leopard.

Unknown Speaker: 1:44:30

Yeah, and just awesome. To echo what Eric said, think of podcasting like golf or bowling you are you're competing against your last episode, because I remember the guys that have come on the scene. And they just blew right by me. And I was like, oh, and then I found out that a they had you know, I had a wife and three kids. I had a job. This person had a girlfriend, no kids and six figures in the bank. So it

Unknown Speaker: 1:45:00

He's hitting off a different set of tees. And I've seen it. It's like one of the worst things you can do. Now I realize it's hard not to compare yourself to others. I'm just here to tell you when you start to do that, because I do it. I mean, why don't we all do it eventually when I go to how does that guy What's she doing that we know? But I've just seen it deflate people to where they quit. Because they're like, I'm I'm giving up. I'm working. When I look at my stats, as long as this month is better than last month, I'm on the right track. And so that's what I do over time. I'm hoping to grow. Eric, any final thoughts as we start to wrap things up? No, I thought this show solid. I'm glad to hear that you're you're adding a little more of you and your personality into the three man show. I thought there was a great story arc to the conversation in the interview episode. You did a nice job leading him down the path uncovering his past and where he's going. Yeah, the nuances that we picked out will just help take your show to that next level. I think you got a solid show and a great foundation built and I'm looking forward to seeing where you take it from here. Yeah, I can said I liked your energy. i For me, I love the trivia it sounds like you're already headed in the direction I would tell you to go which was kind of get away from the wiki PDF thing and bring in more trivia because the people that love this music that listened to it when it was new, live that stuff. So we're you know, you're kind of preaching to the choir, but when you can bring in a nugget that I was like, I had no idea that the bass player of so and so was such and such and went into that. So that whole nine yards and the website is definitely you know, aside from the weird listen and blog thing other than that is rock solid. And so it sounds like you're headed definitely in the right direction. And again, everybody go over to metal mayhem roc.com. To get more information, you can find Eric at podcast talent coach.com. He just released a very special episode 400. And you can find me at school of podcasting.com where I help you plan, launch and grow your podcast. And if you'd like to be reviewed, simply go out to podcast review show.com/review me, this is Dave Jackson. And if you're wondering like hey, where did Eric and John go? Well, yeah, the power went out at my house at the very end of the show. And that's why I'm wrapping it up. So thanks so much. Podcast review show.com/review. Me. I look forward to working with you and Eric and helping you make the best episodes possible.

Big Announcerman: 1:47:42

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